I'd have to say, I agree...

I was disappointed, but for somewhat different reasons.


I don't like Tom. I just don't like him!

I think he's controlling. He gets on my nerves.

If I were to drown in a tragic mill flood, I wouldn't want to be with TOM.



Here's how I think it should have happened:

Maggie and Phillip die together.

Why?

1. Phillip represents a love that Tom and Maggie will never have. It's unconditional, and I feel like they're both equal in each other's eyes.
   
2. It would have made more sense for them to be buried together. I mean, Tom and Maggie? Were they really THAT close?
3. The book would have ended a LOVE story, as opposed to just a DEPRESSING story. Maggie and Phillip seemed to be star-crossed lovers, Tom and Maggie could have gone on living the way they were.

If I am the reincarnation of Maggie Tulliver, I'm gonna find myself a little cripple boy and do it RIGHT this time. Gahh, stupid brunette stereotypes.


-Allie

Okay - My reaction to the ending.

Frankly, I was disappointed that things were left so unresolved. All these problems and oh my gosh the flood get into the boat, Tom! And they die. What.

The. End. Game over.

What happens to her love life? Does it matter? At least by the time she dies she has redeemed herself in the eyes of her brother - and thus sort of reaches salvation without ever really knowing love.

I think she was reincarnated in a time more suited to her...

WITH THE NAME OF ALEXANDRA WATKINS

I kid.

But really that was disappointing. I guess it was realistic in the sense that life is unpredictable.

Sigh.

Oh, unpredictable tragic life.

P.S.

Gina Wrote this, yeah.

Dear Diary,

I write to you today from the sanctuary of the Red Deeps. I am far from everything. I hear neither the rush of the water nor the clack-clack-clack of the mill's wheel. Nothing but gentle chirping of crickets and cheerful birdsong invade my perception, and I feel as though I am at peace. If only you had eyes, that you could see the glorious surroundings for yourself and if only you had understanding so as to absorb what I write in your pages and respond!

Alas, you are a book and you are just a reflection of myself. I am lonely.

It is not as though I have no companions. I have Philip, at the very least. We met once again by the rotted oak stump an hour ago, as usual, and conversed and sang but I feel as though I am obliged to come here. I feel strongly for Philip, like a mother does for a child. If he were hurt, I would blame myself and of course from the possibility my trouble is born. I love him.

I love him and would gladly sign up to be his protector. He shows me affection when I welcome him into my world. Poor outcast! I must be his shield and sword.

Part of me reasons that his interests are selfish. Am I not the only woman who overlooks his deformity? He may mean to ensnare me with his broken heart and pleading eyes, but then, if I am not the one for him, who is?

I know of no girl who would take him. Why have I been led into this unwanted duty? I am trapped, oh how I am trapped.


Gina

Dear Diary...

Dear Diary,

When I was first told, "Life isn't Fair," I never thought it would pertain to my life. Alas, things have not gone as planned lately. I'm torn between two young men, both of which I love for two different reasons. It's as if I've been torn between the material and the spiritual, having to choose only one. Phillip is such a sweatheart, always there for when I need him. For this, I feel almost indebted to him. Stephen, on the other hand, is the most handsome man I've ever seen. He's absolutely magestic, the way he walks and talks in such pride. I feel excited whenever he's around me.

On the other hand, I'm not the only one with such problems. Tom is head-over-heals about Lucy. He's become such a man, and yet he's a mere child when Lucy is around. Sometimes I feel sorry for him, but the way he's been treating me is really driving our relationship apart. Sometimes I feel it's just me, and my sudden changes in mood.

I'm experiencing an internal struggle, I feel. I've become rather introverted, and unwilling to meet anyone, most likely due to depression. Everything has fallen apart in front of me, and I feel I have no dirction, so I simply keep to myself. I know this hurts the people around me. I hope they can learn to forgive me, as I am trying to make ammends.

Until tomorrow,
Maggie



--Allie

Their love lasted as long as they went undetected. Thursday afternoons they would quietly meet in the back room, sipping their hot drinks and staring at each other. Conversation was sometimes awkward, but Maggie intrigued Stephen and Stephen, to a point, intrigued Maggie. However, Maggie often seemed... distracted. Not by Stephen's beauty or the harshness of her situation, but by the nagging image of Philip in the back of her mind. What of Philip? He loved her - doted on her -and she loved him, but her love was a dutiful one. She felt no passion for Philip. His touch didn't set her nerves alight, and his glance didn't make her turn away and blush. If Philip were to find out about Stephen, he would be crushed.

But he couldn't find out about Stephen, reasoned the voice in her head, as they hid in the back room with their tea. The confrontation was avoided for one week longer, when Philip came in to speak to Mary about exhibiting his work. Philip had become a serious artist, and his paintings and drawings would soon hang on the walls of Java. He shuffled to the back of the room to examine the wall space, when he recognized a voice.

Philip took a step into the back room, pleased at first to greet Maggie, when he noticed the hand on her shoulder. And the arm behind her and the shoulder and the body to which that arm was attached and the head belonging to that body. A crestfallen expression quickly replaced his smile. He turned his head and looked back with a nod and an obviously forced grin - more of a grimace.

He backed out of the room with a sheepish wave and briskly headed for the door. Maggie stood up and began to walk after him.

"Philip, hey!"

He paused and turned around. "Erm yeah hello I thought you were... uh. Busy. So I didn't want to interrupt..."

"No! No! There's no interruption at all. Come sit with me. We can play Jenga."

"I'm going to have a show here."

"Really?"

"Yeah, next week is the opening, actually... Will you be there?"

"I don't know if I can, but I'll check."

"Oh."

Philip shifted his weight and looked to the left.

"Yeah, just..."

"Yeeeahhh," he interrupted, "Check. Just check."

"I will. I'll send you a message, okay?"

"Okay." Philip gave a tight-lipped smile and walked out the door.

Stephen looked up from the magazine he had picked up and smiled at Maggie, who gave him a melancholy look. He shrugged and patted the seat next to him, and there Maggie sat in silence for the rest of the time.

It was too late for Maggie to run out, but she was parched and went to get a drink. As she began to drink her red beverage, she, Steven, and Lucy talked. During this time she was haunted by Steven's delicious face. While Lucy was in the restroom Steven and Maggie decided that they would start to meet in secret. They were so caught up in their discussion that they forgot about Lucy's existance. The next morning they met in an abandoned store. They talked for hours and instantly feel in love. These meetings repeated for a short time before they decided to talk about their future....

Your turn Gina!

-Staten

Beginning of creative-writing project

Okay, ladies. We can each write a paragraph. I'll start!

Maggie looked up from her coffee just in time to catch Lucy and Stephen coming in the door. A cigarette hung loosely from her lips. She looked down again, quickly, hoping Stephan didn't try to approach her. She just couldn't face... well... his lovely face. She had spent the last four days sitting around in Java Cabana, reading the poetry everyone left in the sketchbooks that were scattered around. She stayed until they closed every night, and then made the cold, slightly invigorating walk home. She didn't mind being alone. Well, at least she had gotten used to it.

Is that enough for you guys to work with?

--Allie

Boys will be boys?

I KNOWW!!!!

I can't believe George Eliot! It kind of sounds like she just wanted to finish it.



I kind of wanted to talk about all the men in the book, and how I don't really like any of them. Well... I don't really like any of the female characters, either, but someone else can pick up on that.

Tom

• Is he really that likeable, anyway?! He's quite controlling, takes up his father's grudge, and nearly brakes himself over it. After all, Maggie only wants her family to be happy and together. Not to mention Maggie basically grovels under him, after the Phillip thing. I don't like their relationship at all.
  

Phillip

• I mean, he's pretty clingy. I don't like how a man has to be, "like a woman" to be caring or sensitive in this book.
  

Stephen

• I think out of all the men, I like Stephen the most. But, it is kind of a classic, pretty-boy situation. He's pretty full of himself, though I DO think he feels for Maggie.
  

Anyway, so I won't bore you. All I'm saying, is if these guys were around today, Tom would be the redneck, Phillip would be the emo boy, and Stephan would be the male model. I'm not sure I'd really be too fond of any of them.

Any thoughts?

--Allie

Augh!

I just finished the book.

I won't give anything away, but seriously, what the HECK was that ending?  Oof. I feel cheated.

--Gina Sposto

Problems with Good and Evil: Is an opportunistic businessman evil or smart?

The rivalry between Wakem and Mr. Tulliver is more than evident in this story - Tulliver openly dislikes and distrusts Wakem, as Wakem is a symbol of the industrial revolution and therefore a new age of capitalism and consumerism, and entrepreneurship in the world, while Tulliver resists change. 

But does Wakem really get pleasure in thwarting Tulliver? Is the hate mutual? I don't think that the feelings run that deep on the side of Wakem. 

Why?

Wakem's a businessman. He's a lawyer and he doesn't care personally about Tulliver; He's just making good business decisions - that Tulliver just happens to have the short end of the stick for.

Wakem isn't evil.

Now, I'm usually more in the rootin' tootin' anticapitalist peace on earth type, but right now I'll play devil's advocate, okay?

Wakem obviously has a family, and Wakem obviously has an education. He also, apparently, has the freedom to do what he wants businesswise. (I mean, as allowed by the place where he lives.) So he is willing and able to take opportunities when they arise, and even if they disadvantage another person, it was Wakem's right to do so and it's his own conscience that shall say whether or not he, say, sues Tulliver into oblivion. 

He doesn't do it because he dislikes Tulliver. He's got a family to feed. He's got rent to pay for his offices (likely) and he's got to provide money to furnish and supply his home. He has responsibilities, too. It isn't a personal thing, and Wakem could be considered a "smart businessman" because he keeps his personal life out of his business affairs. If Wakem were disadvantaged by another person, he would probably take it in stride and not develop a personal vendetta. Wakem would likely try to devise a new way to earn money and keep his 

family out of financial trouble. That's probably where Wakem and Tulliver differ.

Tulliver is sharp enough to recognize a changing world and to try to prepare his son for it. However, Tulliver is too set in his ways to change himself - and so he makes bad decisions and ends up bankrupt. If he were more flexible, more adaptable, etc., he could probably come right out of this. Instead, he accepts his fate, shrugs his shoulders and bemoans his ill fortune while cursing Wakem, bringing me to my next point.

GOOD AND EVIL.

What? Whaaaat? A businessman took your house and now you're cursing his name - isn't that going a bit far? I don't mean saying, "Damn you, Wakem!" I mean, you're literally putting his name into the family bible. 

The reason I dislike the concepts of pure good and evil: They divide everything up. It's black and white, no room for shades of gray - and there are many. There are other ways of describing things and other points of view, but when things are divided in a person's head as two shades of morality, things get left out and opportunities are missed for personal grudges and superstition. I also don't feel like the ideas of ultimate good and evil are applicable in real life without the influence of religion. I reallllyyyy feel like it's unwise to brand people and sort them into two categories.

With a heaving sigh I leave you,

--Gina Sposto

Throughout the fourth book I think that the theme of failure is very reoccuring. Mr. Tulliver is the character that is involved most with failure. It seems like failure changes one's mind set and cause them to be only focused on bringing themselves back up. There are two quotes that I found that I think really embody the things accociated with failure.

The first quote is talking about how the only time Mr. Tulliver is remotely happy is when he sees the money that he has been building up on.

"The little store of sovereigns in the tin box seemed to be the only sight that brought a faint beam of pleasure into the miller's eyes" (page 290)

The passage continues to say that his his pleasure was short-lived because he knew that he would not see the day all his debts were paid off. His pride has been hurt a lot because of this debt that he owes and all he really wants to do is not be looked upon poorly. I understand what hes feeling because who would want to be remembered as the man that failed.

The other quote that pertained to failure is about how people no longer wish to associate with the Tullivers. This passage shows the effects of one man's mistake on his whole family.

"human beings, mere men and women, without furniture, without anything to offer you, who have ceased to count as anybody, present an embarrassing negation of reasons for wishing to see them, or of subjects on which to converse with them." (page 292)

Majority of society reject failures and wish to have nothing to do with them. The Tullivers went from being a socially acceptable family to one that not many wished to associate with. This failure is effecting Maggie. She most likely will not be recieving too many marriage offers, because she has no money nor social status to offer. It effected Tom also. Most women and their parents don't want them to start off in debt and with a bad reputation. Mrs. Tulliver is lost without her friends and sisters. One man's mistake has messed up the lives of the ones he loves most.

-Staten

Ms. Blatti Reacts...

Hi Girls,

There are some really good ideas here in your blog. I like how you are placing the questions within the blog itself and posing questions to one another. You are also doing a really nice job following up on strands of blog postings from previous entries; this format allows you to develo pan idea that might have been started by someone else, and this also allows ideas to come full circle. However, you are behind on your postings right now, as your last entry was for April 6th. Be sure to catch up asap tomorrow.
Thanks! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts as they are posted.
Ms. Blatti

Ten Questions for the Study Guide!

1. What major themes are defined in the first book?

2. How do the males in the book react to Maggie’s intelligence?

3. Why do they react that way?

4. How do the females in the book react to Maggie’s intelligence?

5. Why do they react that way?

6. Why do you feel Maggie idolizes Tom?

7. How does Tom feel about morality?

8. Why do you think he feels this way?

9. What is important to Maggie’s mother and her sisters?

10. What do they represent?

Gina, I think you raise a good point about the way Tom views people. I believe that if Tom had not been so set on hating Phillip, then they could have been friends. Also I think that the situation of Tom being hurt could have worked as a bonding time between both of them. Tom was finally getting a taste of Phillip's life. Deformity is something that Phillip has been living with for his whole life. Phillip seems exceptionally self-conscious. Maggie is very attracted to him. I think the reason for this is that she wants someone to appreciate her talking to them and she wants to feel wanted. Phillip is greatful that someone is willing to look past his outward appearence. A crush has developed between these two and one wonders if these feelings will continue between these two. Phillip may be scared off by the protective older brother, Tom, who hates Phillip. Even I admit to being afraid of the intimidating older sibling.

Back to the question of how old we think Maggie is.....

I personally think Maggie was about eight when she pushed Lucy into the pond, but then I guess you also have to take into consideration her intellectual ability. Not many kids at age eight are as smart as she was then. Maybe she could have been ten at that time. Her actions are very immature. One example is when she cut her own hair. Yes, I also did that as a child, but when I was six. I feel like maybe Mary Anne was vague about how old she was so that she could have time to develope her character.

Allie, I agree with you. I feel like Mrs. Tulliver seems like the perfect Victorian wife. Maggie, on the other hand, is very different from her mother. I've also noticed how their relationship really isn't mentioned that much in the book. I think it is very likely that Maggie and her mother's relationship may relfect the author's relationship with her own mother. Throughout the book I've noticed a few similarities between Maggie and Mary Anne. They are both women who are educated. I assume that Mary Anne was educated because if she had not been then the book would not exist. Maybe Mary Anne attributed some of her characteristics to Maggie.

Now to try to answer Allie's questions...
I feel that if Maggie had continued her education she could have made a very good governess. Mothers and fathers would for sure have welcomed a girl, as smart as she is, to help with their childeren.
And I agree that I don't get the sense that her parents are trying to keep her from being educated. They arn't necessarily asking her to learn, though. I think that Maggie's mother just wants Maggie to grow up and be a good housewife like she is.

A couple of questions I have:
1. What will happen to Maggie and Phillip? Will they continue to crush on each other?
2. What will Maggie and Tom do now that they are broke and their father is injured?

Staten

Justice?

I just wanted to ramble a bit about the idea of justice and good particularly in relation to Tom's own sense of it.

Now, Tom tends to view things in a very black and white way - he really divides people up and polarizes a spectrum of good and evil. Either you're with Tom, or you're against him.

Oof, you can hardly see my spectrum. Oh well.







Personally, I cannot relate at all to this sort of viewpoint. My moral spectrum is more of a web than a line with an arrow on the left pointing to good and one on the right pointing to evil.

Anyhow, Tom's sense of morality gives him a predisposition toward prejudice. He asks Philip, for instance, if he loves his father.


And oh my GOD I am upset with this computer - it disconnected from the internet, I pressed post, and the autosave hadn't saved it until this point. I'll edit this with the rest of it later. I hate my computer agh agh agh

--Gina Sposto

Father Knows Best?

So... today I kind of wanted to talk about the kind of role models Tom and Maggie have. I mean, Tom is constantly pressed by his father to pursue an education and make something of himself. Maggie, however, is not exactly discouraged from getting an education. Her father isn't against her educating herself, but knows it will not ever directly "aid" her in her life. I kind of feel like this is significant in Maggie's way of thinking, because she does not feel as restricted as other girls might. Anyway... I think Maggie and I would have been best friends, assuming I lived in Victorian England and... well... if she actually existed.

Maggie's relationship with her mother is kind of... not touched in the book. I feel like this might have been because Maggie's relationship with her mother seemed kind of distant. After all, her mother is the tranquil, obedient, average Victorian wife, no? Maggie (or better yet, the author) might have felt distant from her mother, considering they most likely had very different ideas, personalities, and goals.


A couple questions that were raised:

1. If Maggie would have continued with her education, could she have had at least a smidgen of a job? Perhaps a governess?
   
2. I know various widowed, wealthy women ran salons for the intellectuals of the time; Sounds like a great job for Maggie! (not a question, but...)
3. Does anyone see Maggi's parents' not restricting her from reading to be the same as a subliminal way of urging her to educate herself? I just cant help but think they're at least a little bit on her side.
   

¡Adios!
(Belated International Week 1 point GOLD)

-Allie

Gahh, I love putting pictures on here...

I get the feeling that the book only incorporates their lives up until they're young adults, like in their early 20's.

Also, I think their behavior is a little immature some of the time, so they might seem a little younger than they are. I think Maggie was about 12 when she pushed Lucy into the mud.

It's kind of like Wuthering Heights, in the sense that Cathy seemed a lot younger than she was for a long time.



I like the ORANGE. Y'know, just a thought, we MIGHT could just color-code our posts :S


--ALLIEEEEE

Oh, a quick note on the side...

Is anybody else having some issues determining exactly how old Tom and Maggie are? Seriously, maybe I missed some definite figures somewhere in the book but in years how old are they?

--Gina Sposto

The Jam Puff Incident or Jealousy and Maturity

I saw that quote on Allie's post and thought a bit about it -

“Maggie, thinking it was no use to contend further, began too, and ate up her half-puff with considerable relish as well as rapidity. But Tom had finished first, and had to look on while Maggie ate her last morsel or two, feeling in himself a capacity for more. Maggie didn’t know Tom was looking at her: she was seesawing on the elder bough, lost to almost everything but a vague sense of jam and idleness.”

Y'know, it's sort of funny but Glennis (my little sister) and I have had similar situations to the Jam Puff Incident in our past...

Say we had baked a cake, and there were two spoons full of batter to lick - one considerably larger than the other. It was difficult when we were young and immature to decide who got which, and sometimes we would attempt to be noble little darlings and offer the other the tastier spoon. We'd then ask each other, "What, are you suuuure I can have it? Really, like, you can have it it's okay oh whatever if you're really sure well wow gee this is tasty I'm only sorry you gave it to me and I would share it with you only cooties etc."

When one finally got the other, there would always be a slight pang of regret in the 'unselfish' one. And of course we would Josh and call each other "pigs." There was slight, immature jealousy, and the reason it was immature? (Well, jealousy is a trait of the immature anyhow, but...) It was a trifling thing we were worrying about.

See, now if something like that were to happen - Say we bake a cake now and there are two spoons - My sister and I are more mature now. We wouldn't fight over the batter or get all passive-agressive with the frosting. It is a sign of maturity, I think (and even though this is such a small example that it may seem very silly to you to even compare it to such an important theme as maturity) to let go of worry over trifling things for instant gratification and small instances of personal gain.

It's a sign of maturity, that is, to let your sister have the bigger pastry puff and genuinely not worry yourself about it.

But see, that's the thing about young children - little things mean the world to kids, because what does their life consist of? They play and they go to school etc etc - they don't have much in the way of a sense of the world and they're more concerned with the now - what's going on in their environment at any one moment in time. (a reason that children are more "in tune" with their surroundings, or at least are viewed that way.) They're innocent. They are not preoccupied with heavy subjects and they aren't preoccupied with their futures. The fear hasn't been instilled quite yet. They want instant gratification and they want to have fun and be appreciated, and that is it. It's all very zen, yeah?

All this rambling, all this rambling, and I haven't even gotten to the point yet. What I'm basically trying to prove is that George Eliot is making some sorta statement about maturity in The Mill on the Floss. Maggie and Tom, at this point, aren't mature, and I think that it's pretty cool that Eliot's actually making the effort to distinguish them as children. She really tries to capture the essence of being uncertain and jealous and immature and innocent. Maturity, I think, is a major theme here.

Also, I detect a little bit of irony in the association between superficial social values - something entirely silly and sometimes quite petty; something sometimes inspiring jealousy over trifles and material things - and maturity. Oh, dear, everything goes on and on.

I have a lot more homework to do at this strange hour, so I'll leave my post with this:

Grown-ups let their sister have the bigger beater.

Peace out, boy scout!
--Gina Sposto

A Couple of Quotes...

“It is a wonderful subduer, this need of love—this hunger of the heart—as peremptory as that other hunger by which Nature forces us to submit to the yoke, and change the face of the world.”

• This passage describes Maggie’s need for love, and how it affects her.

“Maggie, thinking it was no use to contend further, began too, and ate up her half-puff with considerable relish as well as rapidity. But Tom had finished first, and had to look on while Maggie ate her last morsel or two, feeling in himself a capacity for more. Maggie didn’t know Tom was looking at her: she was seesawing on the elder bough, lost to almost everything but a vague sense of jam and idleness.”

• This excerpt from the text shows how Maggie and Tom have a considerable amount of sibling rivalry, as well as a kind of jealousy towards one another.

These two quotes seem to stand out to me especially, because they seem to show the weaknesses of both Maggie and Tom. They both can get extremely jealous of one another, but at the same time, are the very best of friends.

--Allie

Ms. Blatti Reactions...

Hi girls, I love your blog! Witty, insightful, playful and thorough, your blog is entertaining and educational! I actually really liked the screen shot of the IM conversation; your abilty to go back and forth the way that you did on the issue of Maggie's education was really thought provoking. I also like your honesty. For instance, let's revisit Gina's comment:

I’ll probably get more “into” it as the story progresses. I mean, reading this vs. Wuthering Heights is like taking a big bite out of dark double chocolate cake vs. licking a chocolate chip cookie. Well, that’s a bit exaggerated, but you get my drift.

Very funny and original. I appreciate the comparisons to Wuthering Heights and I can promise that you will be more "into" the storyline as Maggie matures and grows into her adult relationships. Stick with it. And, keep up the upbeat, insightful, and witty tone of your blog. Nice work! I look forward to the next posting. Bye! I have to go floss now :-)

A fantastic discussion

Here we've been discussing the story so far... Thought I'd post it.

Gina N. Sposto has joined the chat.
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Alexandra D. Watkins has joined the chat.
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Staten L. Smith has joined the chat.
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Alexandra D. Watkins[10:55:42 AM]: Will Maggie and Tom's good frienship falter because fo Tom's access to education and Maggie's lack thereof?

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Gina N. Sposto[10:56:00 AM]: It will falter, of course, because Tom will have to make the trek to a distant, scholarly land...
---------------
Gina N. Sposto[10:56:21 AM]: And of course their relationship will change after that... I mean, despite their differences they are very close.
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Gina N. Sposto[10:57:10 AM]: With an education that he may find challenging in a bad way, he could grow to envy Maggie's natural intelligence and attempt to quash her enthusiasm
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Gina N. Sposto[10:57:25 AM]: or force her into a "woman's" role
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Gina N. Sposto[10:57:44 AM]: I dunno.
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Alexandra D. Watkins[10:59:28 AM]: Maggie's role is expected to be that of a 19th century housewife. Tom is expected for much greater things. Would you say, in Victorian England, that educated women were deemed unattractive, and might this affect Maggie's future?
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Gina N. Sposto[11:01:08 AM]: Perhaps... She won't be educated at the same level as her brother, but I don't know. Women were expected, probably, to be docile but at the same time sensible... I don't think that stupid women were attractive but then again neither were those who knew "too much for their own good." Maggie doesn't fit the mold anyhow. She's unnaturally dark (like me! hooray for brunettes!) and a contrast between light and dark (in terms of attractiveness) may arise.
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Staten L. Smith[11:01:14 AM]: Yes, women of that times role was to get married, take care of kids, and make the food. If she is not attractive and is really smart then she has two things working against her.
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Gina N. Sposto[11:01:33 AM]: I disagree in terms of intelligence working against her
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Gina N. Sposto[11:01:43 AM]: but it could result in some tragic sort of situation for her
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Gina N. Sposto[11:01:50 AM]: i mean, an internal tragedy
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Gina N. Sposto[11:02:05 AM]: she'll be denied the chance to live up to her potential
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Alexandra D. Watkins[11:02:48 AM]: When the man who comes to their house finds that she is reeding books, her father becomes embarrased and sends her to her mother.
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Gina N. Sposto[11:02:50 AM]: Here's that quote you asked for... "That's what brings folks to the gallows—knowin' everything but what they'n got to get their bread by."
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Gina N. Sposto[11:03:19 AM]: wait which question are we on now?
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Staten L. Smith[11:03:22 AM]: men didnt want a smart women because she would cause trouble
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Gina N. Sposto[11:03:38 AM]: i don't think smartness is the right idea though
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Gina N. Sposto[11:03:49 AM]: maybe they didn't want a woman who would know too much... but one can know a lot and still
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Gina N. Sposto[11:03:51 AM]: be stupid
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Gina N. Sposto[11:03:56 AM]: though her intelligence is the "bookish" kind
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Staten L. Smith[11:03:57 AM]: i think it is
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Gina N. Sposto[11:04:02 AM]: either way
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Alexandra D. Watkins[11:04:17 AM]: Well, Maggie (to me at least) seems somewhat excessively concerned with pleasing her brother. In many ways I think she is somewhat effected by the social norms of the time.
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Gina N. Sposto[11:04:41 AM]: I thought of that as sort of... I dunno, she admires her brother, certainly
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Gina N. Sposto[11:04:45 AM]: because he *is* her big brother
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Gina N. Sposto[11:04:48 AM]: her role model
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Gina N. Sposto[11:04:56 AM]: and he possesses a different kind of intelligence than she
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Gina N. Sposto[11:05:08 AM]: so she admires what she doesn't have
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Gina N. Sposto[11:05:33 AM]: and aspires to it, perhaps... especially because tom's academic attempts would be praised more heavily than her own
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Staten L. Smith[11:05:38 AM]: we are doing this all wrong
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Gina N. Sposto[11:05:40 AM]: naw
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Staten L. Smith[11:05:43 AM]: yes
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Gina N. Sposto[11:05:45 AM]: i think we're making progress

I agree with both Gina and Allie. In these beginging chapters the reader is really able to focus on the relationships between Maggie and Tom. Maggie and Tom both differ in their educational values and oppurtinities. Tom is not as naturally smart as Maggie but he does have a strong sence of practical outdoors knowledge. At a young age maggie is reading adult books. Mr. Riley even tells her she shouldn't be reading these books. Mr. and Mrs. Tulliver really want Tom to get a very good education, because he is a male. Maggie's knowlege is brushed off and considered a bad thing. In the family Maggie is looked down upon as the smart, ugly child. When with Mrs. Tulliver, Mrs. Glegg disscusses Maggie's unsuitable qualities. One wonders how all of these negative opinions of Maggie will make her feel and if she will try to change herself in order to please those around her.
-Staten Smith

Tom And Maggie - Two Very Different Peas In One Victorian Pod

Tom and Maggie on their most basic levels are completely different, their personalities being defined by their types of intelligence. Tom possesses a practical, natural sense of the world. He enjoys being outdoors and understanding the world in a physical way. Maggie, on the other hand, is a creative, passionate individual who (as far as I can infer) easily gets carried away in her emotions and imaginings. A person like Tom, one can reason, learns by doing and experiencing. A person like Maggie learns through scholarly work. The attitude toward the siblings (pertaining to education) results in a certain level of irony; Maggie is denied the education that fits her mind, while Tom is a square peg forced into a round hole. The result is bound to be failure for each, but I shall keep an open mind and see how the story unfolds.

I’ve gotta say, though – so far I’m not too keen on this book. It’s a little bit densely worded and the organization is unique. I’ll probably get more “into” it as the story progresses. I mean, reading this vs. Wuthering Heights is like taking a big bite out of dark double chocolate cake vs. licking a chocolate chip cookie. Well, that’s a bit exaggerated, but you get my drift. I look forward to the rest of the book!

-- Gina Sposto


Early on in the book, one has quite different feelings concerning both Maggie and Tom’s ancestry. Though they grow up very close to one another, their outlooks on life remain quite different. Maggie, though growing up in a highly patriarchal society, always seems to keep an open mind about her role in the world. Maggie, showing more of a likeness to the Tulliver family, is messy, wild, and very spirited. Tom, however, has a great sense of right and wrong, and is very aimed towards justice. His education means very much to the family, as he is a boy, and will be expected to get a job in business. Maggie’s pursuit of knowledge is seen as embarrassing by her father, and she is discouraged from reading. Even her good friend, Luke the miller, sees education as dangerous, saying, "That's what brings folks to the gallows—knowin' everything but what they'n got to get their bread by."

As Maggie and Tom seem to begin their childhood on a similar level, they are torn apart by Tom’s obligation to be sent away to school, and Maggie’s obligation to stay home and cross-stitch, which she rejects. I will be interested to observe the interaction between the two children as Tom is pushed higher and higher into society, while Maggie is left to pine for a life in which she can be able to be treated as an equal. Will their good friendship falter? Will Tom begin to treat Maggie with the same prejudices common to the times?

-- Allie Watkins